Church of Gnostic Christianity?

by zzzoutdoorgirl for everyone

Has anybody found a church that accepts Gnostic Christianity? I belong to a traditional Christian church because of my desire to spread the news of Christ and have fellowship with others. I am often deeply saddened by the way the gospel, even as it exists in the bible, is twisted to include exclusionary practices, hatred, anger, slander, gossip, at most Christian churches.

It is my prayer, not to walk the path alone, but I often feel lonely. The more I reveal my true feelings, the more lonely I feel. I am wondering how others handle this……………. Does anybody manage to have fellowship with other Gnostic believers? I dream of being at a table encouraged by like minded people!

20 Comments

msn-dstoverden wrote on Dec 28, ’03

You may have come to the right place. I would suggest you continue to watch this message board. You will begin to pick up on the themes and attitudes of others who are not happy with their current affliations or lack of affiliations.

Now I am assuming alot because I just joined this message board two days ago. In fact the message board was just created two days ago. So, you see, I have no real knowledge about how it is going to be received and I am not a part of the group that put it together, but I have just adopted it as a starting point for my own search

Regarding Gnostic Christianity the founder of this group is (or was because he just passed away December 1) William Kiefert. He has written extensively about his views. Gnosticism has been around since shortly after the death of Jesus. It was an interpretation of religious beliefs centered around Jesus that was branded as heretical in 180 AD. But the gospels that did not make it into the bible and which were used by the Gnostics were rediscovered in 1945 at a place called Nag Hammadi. This brought the whole subject to the light of day. Now there is a very definite effort by many folks to revisit the subject.

A church in Los Angeles exists that holds weekly meetings and is headed up by Stephen Hoeller who has written may books on the subject of Gnosticism.

The basic arguments of this brand of Christian faith is that you do not have to have faith that a God out there somewhere looking out for you, rather, you can come to your own trust in an inner soul that is of God. You can basically “know” God without the trappings of the ritual and orthodoxy of traditional churches.

Dave

msn-barbsdogs wrote on Dec 29, ’03

Dave:

Have been reading your messages today. I worked with Bill for the last four years…editing and word processing…and he certainly changed my way of thinkintg of religion. The last paragraph of your message to NEW GUY was great. Established Religions are eager to protect their turf. We can know God directly without the mediation of Priests, Ministers and other Clerics.

Thank you, Roger, for continuing on.

Barb

msn-zzzoutdoorgirl wrote on Jan 10, ’04

Ashlar

Thank you for your insights. You are so right when you indicaste that a church should support each other……..

I would like to know more about your church. Do you feel comfortable discussing it here? If not, you can email me directly.

I am not sure who your message about throwing away the church entirely was aimed at. I am extremely active in my current church and, at this point, have no intentions of abandoning it. I actually need it. And, often, I am fed there. Tonight was a good example, Spent 3 hours there at children’s basketbal games.

I beieve when I am open to the spirit of others, I am given the precious gift of sharing and receiving another’s faith. It is beautiful.

I belive we are on this earth to interact with others. It is the reason why we have a body here. It is often difficult to deal with each person’s foibles. If I can look into myself and my foibles, then I would love and accept others more graciously.

msn-esinod2020 wrote on Jan 10, ’04

……………. Does anybody manage to have fellowship with other Gnostic believers? I dream of being at a table encouraged by like minded people!

Just change your concept of table. The people and concepts that survive are willing and able to change. Perhaps we are being prepared for a time when we only have keyboards and kinesis to communicate with…

My grandfather, Rev. Samuel Taylor was a “Called” Methodist preacher who helped found the Methodist church I grew up in. I went to Catholic school and was so enamored, I was the president of the Little Oblates of America, a chapter of girls interested in entering the convent. It didn’t matter that I wasn’t Catholic, so quickly had I embraced this world of the Crusades, vestments(boys in dresses, oh my!) Gregorian chants, Latin, Oh it was SO romantic! So on Sundays, I was the Child in the temple, (Russell Temple C.M.E. Church, Alexandria, VA.) an articulate, curious child, questioning the elders, challenging the standard interpretations and offering elucidation from a woman child’s point of view. I was a business school graduate at 13 and preparing the Sundays program on Mimeo, typing up annual reports and being an upstanding asset to society. An aspiring young actor, model I was destined to become a force to be recorded with, as I was the first black to do almost everything I did. Singing before I could talk at the encouragement of my Beloved Grandmother Rosie, I sang the Negro spirituals and sweet children’s songs we learned by rote. The church located between our house and my grandmothers can account for my presence for years of my youth, as Grandma Rosie was the Directress and my Mother was the pianist. Every Saturday the Little Buds Rehearsed and learned how to be the children . We knew we were important, because Jesus said, “Suffer the little children”. It didn’t matter that we didin’t know what

“Suffer the children” meant; we knew it carried weight. My Grandmother knew the power of starting children praising young. It lessened the opportunity of them going bad so quickly. Or so she thought. Let’s fast forward to the morning of reckoning.. Grandma was at our house, like a whirlwind to help stir my Sister and I toward

school in a timely fashion.

She came in like blockbusters: Turn, Turn Turn! she would say, rushing us into our uniforms and out to our respective Catholic schools. I was to take a bus across town to integrate St. Mary’s the year they shoot Kennedy. I had the pleasure of experiencing that with all my Irish Catholic peers. Eerie. But I digress. When I became pregnant at 15 by a nineteen year old, long haired white boy, both communities went reeling. I was tossed into the air, a veritable hot potato at a time when Dr. King was preaching getting along between the races, but he didn’t mean getting along like THAT!.

When the dust cleared, I was a woman child with No church but Donavan and Cat Stevens for Sunday School and the Beatles as the Bible. I was so abandoned by Family, Church State, you name it, yet I have maintained a rich connection to God, My Father all these years. Through Peace marches,Woodstock, Riots, I have through the Grace of God-Goddess Persevered! My belief net has expanded exponentially since then and I have had a rich life that includes misery , miracles, mystery and madness.

Be able to accept the notion that our expression and exercise of spirituality may change, but that’s only because we are spread out in this world to do the most good! We’ll all have to hone up on virtual hugs. At least without churches they can’t come and get us!
msn-dstoverden wrote on Jan 10, ’04
Here’s a hug. And you deserve many more. What a story of perserverance. And you didn’t need an escalator to make it through. Or did the latest escalator ride help bring this story out?

msn-esinod2020 wrote on Jan 12, ’04

Thanks Dave,

The escalator didn’t bring it out unless my rambling is a product of my visit…

I start talking about one thing, and before I know it: three hour email!

It is great believing that no one who reads this will do me harm despite my candor. Thanks for establishing this forum. Donise
msn-ashlar38 wrote on Jan 13, ’04
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.
msn-dstoverden wrote on Jan 13, ’04
Thanks for the compliment but I did not start this forum, Donise. The people at www.gnosticchristianity did? I just have done alot of talking and really enjoy this particular place.
msn-esinod2020 wrote on Jan 13, ’04
Sorry for the mislaid praise. I think, in retrospect it was someone named RK Darnell… does his name ring any bells?

You are assuming the role of group leader(aggravator), though?

I found your bibliography helpful, but , FYI, the first three web addresses were defunct…

Thanks, Donise

msn-dstoverden wrote on Jan 13, ’04

RE: defunct web addresses.

These two should work

www.gnostic.com
www.earlychristianwritings.com

The other web address was where you can find what the Bishop Irenaeus said about gnosticism. Just go to Google and search on the terms Irenaeus and heresy. You will find it there.

Sorry

msn-esinod2020 wrote on Jan 14, ’04

Aslar,

Indeed, there’s a reason I was taught not to discuss religion! When someone does ask, how do you define your belief? Do you label it Gnostic or is it too “new” for name recognition?
Donise

msn-esinod2020 wrote on Jan 15, ’04

Thanks Dave, You printed your disclaimer, no harm no foul! Donise

msn-christis10 wrote on Jan 16, ’04

Hi Ken,

Yes, Gnosis, an inner visual state of awareness into the Presence of the Gods allowed unlimited Knowledge and Truth. The level of Divine Intellectualism is, of course, Relative.

I have been able to determine the Divine Life level of Education for the Spirit within the last three stages of the Great Cycle. Those advanced or in the Higher Rise stage were able to enter into Temples in the Kingdom of the Lord in order to advance their research.

Also reestablish the Pulling of Excalibur for The Transfiguration of the Spirit to receive and Serve Truth. Also, some students had reached the level of Divine Life and were awarded the Grail Cup Transfiguration.

I hope you are familiar with the Language of the Gods.

I have the entire Salvation Program Itinerary for Purification of the Spiritual-Soul.

Of which all of the above is Actual in Nature where all Spiritual-Souls I have worked with over the last 30 years were compatible with all Itineraries.

Hope to hear back

msn-esinod2020 wrote on Jan 17, ’04

Ken,

Cool! When I said new, I guess I meant “not mainstream” like Episcopalian! I, like Patty, am interested in hearing how folk came to believe what they do. In a short time on this board I have heard a LOT of things! So far it looks like I’m a Gnostic Christian also. Thanks for the info. Donise
msn-zzzoutdoorgirl wrote on Jan 19, ’04
What about the Jewish Kabbalah? Is that a kind of Jewish gnostic? ???

I have this book called The Other Gospel. In it are a complete (?) compilation of all the books found in the Dead Sea Scrolls………… There are alot of Kabbalah books in there, which were hidden by the Essenes …………

I have tried to read these books, but could not really understand the meaning behind them.

msn-christis10 wrote on Jan 19, ’04

Hi ZZZ,

Judaic kabbalah is a type of Gnosticism, but based on the study and understanding of the evolution of the spiritual body. But, is always heavily coded in the same style of coding as all religious material. You have to remember that Judaism removed all Living Contact with the Quaternary of God Figures, the Father – His Son who through a Living Contact places within the Spirit Divine Mental-Intellectualism; God, the Mother – Her Holy Spirit/Daughter who through a Living Contact Transfigures Wisdom within the Spirit. Eliminating the ability for a spiritual body to attain the Nature of God renders the spirit with an unbalanced growth toward completion – usually the soul’s free will choice to reject Divine Truth.

You will find Kabbalistic as you do the Alexandrian Allogorist coding within the Bible.

To study with a Kabbalist, you have to be a male, Jewish, and move to Israel, where you go to a mountain monastery. There are lots of books out their, but written as a mind definition of data without Divine Contact or understanding of the Kingdom of the Lord, its Truth, Knowledge, and Wisdom.

If you have something you wish to be translated let me know.

You might try the Encyclopedia Judaica at the Library or Hebrew Temple Library.

msn-zzzoutdoorgirl wrote on Jan 20, ’04

Thanks for your insights.

At this time, I am not read to study Jewish Gnosticism. I must know much more before I am ready for that!

I was just replying to Message 16 in this thread, where Ken talked about pre-Christian Gnosticism.